Maybe this is my "OK Boomer" moment, though I don't think I'm technically a Boomer -- I was born in the mid sixties, so I'm about Kamala's age.
When I was a Young Right-Winger in the 80s, conservatives were, if anything, nerdy and bookish intellectual types, very interested in ideas. College age conservatives actually read books. Things like The Conservative Mind: From Burke to Eliot, by Russell Kirk, things by Irving Kristol (who was much smarter than his warmongering son), The Austrians like Hayek and von Mises (yes, I actually read Human Action in college, for fun.). Thomas Sowell, who was already a towering intellectual figure.
As somebody who came to "the Right" via the libertarian route, I literally had copies of Milton Friedman's Capitalism and Freedom" and Ayn Rand's "Atlas Shrugged" on the bedside table. To a large extent, the conservative movement in America prior to Trump was kind of the opposite of the online "own the libs" thing we've got going on now. When I engaged and debated my classmates in college and law school, my goal was to persuade them of the rightness of my clearly correct views, not to own or humiliate them.
Of course, when I was younger many on the left were willing to engage in open debate.
I'll add that I just don't get the nice words for Curtis Yarvin. I don't think he should be canceled or exiled or anything, but I do not see the appeal. He takes 1,000 words what could be said in ten, and his main theory -- authoritarian rule dressed up as "monarchy" -- is neither conservative nor particularly likely to succeed in practice. Authoritarian states tend to be neither free nor prosperous, and no, Singapore proves only that you can get lucky, not that authoritarianism is likely to lead to success in the general case.
This is a really interesting perspective. I remember a right wing friend of mine using the fact that there is only one Fox News to 10 CNNs as evidence of left wing media bias, I like this conclusion more. Where can a right winger find intellectual, open-minded right wing thinkers now?
“I thought the left had bad economic instincts and that the economy was more important than cultural questions.”
Pronouns might be silly but many Americans (and Westerners in general) are alienated by the oikophobia (using this literally and as a catch-all term) that is widespread on the left (or at least in the culture at large). When your home (outside your house is also home) is no longer comfortable, it causes unease. I have felt it since the Great Awokening and before.
I think broadly that MAGA is a way of viewing the past positively and wanting to return to it, and Leftism is viewing the past and reacting negatively - that would be the source of the oikophobia.
Because I'm a squishy centristy person, I think that the past had both good parts and bad parts and that America is still a great country. There are dozens of us!
As somebody on the so called 'right', I do agree with a lot of what you say here.
My problem is that whilst it's true the left is a big tent in regards to economics, it does not on culture.
Do you consider Sohrab Ahmari on the left these days? If what you're saying is true, you should do
I'm somebody who is very into intellectual debates and political philosophy. There are many in my political tribe as well. But whilst I don't like the kooky conspiratard elements of the so called 'right-wing' that lack basic epistemology, on actual issues, particularly on social issues, I'm definitely to the right of MAGA.
I probably oversimplified by referring to MAGA as a coherent position on the right, where someone can be to the right or left of it. MAGA is less a political ideology and is more of a cult, which is why it’s transforming into a sort of degrowth quasi-leftist project now. To be MAGA is to blunt one’s senses in favor of the positions of one man.
I agree there are plenty of people on the right who are into ideas. But they wouldn’t be welcomed by MAGA any more than they would be welcomed in leftist circles.
Yeah they'd rebuff me for acknowledging anthropogenic climate change is real and serious, the Covid vaccines saved far more people than they harmed and were an overwhelmingly positive thing, Trump did not win in 2020, and cultured meat does not cause cancer.
But in terms of my subjective ideology and values, I am much more right-wing, particularly on social issues.
In his book on Orwell (_Orwell Your Orwell_), David Ramsay Steele points out that over the last 100+ years, the left has shifted dramatically right. The woke turmoil suggests otherwise, but there is no real movement to nationalize the economy. So, while it’s reasonable to “left code” this or that, we could also “right code” a great deal of the mainstream “left” today compared to the past. Having said that, I subscribe to Hiram and Vernon Lewis’ _The Myth of Left and Right_. What we mainly have is tribalism.
Lowing standards, de-policing, soft on crime, discrimination against White folk, decimalizing of drugs. 90% of bad left-wing ideas in the last sixty years is rooted in "Race". Any moderate disposal would have to deal with the fact that treaty everyone by equal standards will lead to equal outcomes.
Maybe this is my "OK Boomer" moment, though I don't think I'm technically a Boomer -- I was born in the mid sixties, so I'm about Kamala's age.
When I was a Young Right-Winger in the 80s, conservatives were, if anything, nerdy and bookish intellectual types, very interested in ideas. College age conservatives actually read books. Things like The Conservative Mind: From Burke to Eliot, by Russell Kirk, things by Irving Kristol (who was much smarter than his warmongering son), The Austrians like Hayek and von Mises (yes, I actually read Human Action in college, for fun.). Thomas Sowell, who was already a towering intellectual figure.
As somebody who came to "the Right" via the libertarian route, I literally had copies of Milton Friedman's Capitalism and Freedom" and Ayn Rand's "Atlas Shrugged" on the bedside table. To a large extent, the conservative movement in America prior to Trump was kind of the opposite of the online "own the libs" thing we've got going on now. When I engaged and debated my classmates in college and law school, my goal was to persuade them of the rightness of my clearly correct views, not to own or humiliate them.
Of course, when I was younger many on the left were willing to engage in open debate.
I'll add that I just don't get the nice words for Curtis Yarvin. I don't think he should be canceled or exiled or anything, but I do not see the appeal. He takes 1,000 words what could be said in ten, and his main theory -- authoritarian rule dressed up as "monarchy" -- is neither conservative nor particularly likely to succeed in practice. Authoritarian states tend to be neither free nor prosperous, and no, Singapore proves only that you can get lucky, not that authoritarianism is likely to lead to success in the general case.
This is a really interesting perspective. I remember a right wing friend of mine using the fact that there is only one Fox News to 10 CNNs as evidence of left wing media bias, I like this conclusion more. Where can a right winger find intellectual, open-minded right wing thinkers now?
“I thought the left had bad economic instincts and that the economy was more important than cultural questions.”
Pronouns might be silly but many Americans (and Westerners in general) are alienated by the oikophobia (using this literally and as a catch-all term) that is widespread on the left (or at least in the culture at large). When your home (outside your house is also home) is no longer comfortable, it causes unease. I have felt it since the Great Awokening and before.
I think broadly that MAGA is a way of viewing the past positively and wanting to return to it, and Leftism is viewing the past and reacting negatively - that would be the source of the oikophobia.
Because I'm a squishy centristy person, I think that the past had both good parts and bad parts and that America is still a great country. There are dozens of us!
PS-I like your stuff! Here’s the article that inspired my comment: https://open.substack.com/pub/fakenous/p/whats-wrong-with-attacking-our-own-society?r=b5zww&utm_medium=ios
As somebody on the so called 'right', I do agree with a lot of what you say here.
My problem is that whilst it's true the left is a big tent in regards to economics, it does not on culture.
Do you consider Sohrab Ahmari on the left these days? If what you're saying is true, you should do
I'm somebody who is very into intellectual debates and political philosophy. There are many in my political tribe as well. But whilst I don't like the kooky conspiratard elements of the so called 'right-wing' that lack basic epistemology, on actual issues, particularly on social issues, I'm definitely to the right of MAGA.
I probably oversimplified by referring to MAGA as a coherent position on the right, where someone can be to the right or left of it. MAGA is less a political ideology and is more of a cult, which is why it’s transforming into a sort of degrowth quasi-leftist project now. To be MAGA is to blunt one’s senses in favor of the positions of one man.
I agree there are plenty of people on the right who are into ideas. But they wouldn’t be welcomed by MAGA any more than they would be welcomed in leftist circles.
Yeah they'd rebuff me for acknowledging anthropogenic climate change is real and serious, the Covid vaccines saved far more people than they harmed and were an overwhelmingly positive thing, Trump did not win in 2020, and cultured meat does not cause cancer.
But in terms of my subjective ideology and values, I am much more right-wing, particularly on social issues.
In his book on Orwell (_Orwell Your Orwell_), David Ramsay Steele points out that over the last 100+ years, the left has shifted dramatically right. The woke turmoil suggests otherwise, but there is no real movement to nationalize the economy. So, while it’s reasonable to “left code” this or that, we could also “right code” a great deal of the mainstream “left” today compared to the past. Having said that, I subscribe to Hiram and Vernon Lewis’ _The Myth of Left and Right_. What we mainly have is tribalism.
Brilliant articulation of what, I'm sure, many are thinking right now
Thank you kind sir.
Enjoyed this article man. All good points
Thanks man
Lowing standards, de-policing, soft on crime, discrimination against White folk, decimalizing of drugs. 90% of bad left-wing ideas in the last sixty years is rooted in "Race". Any moderate disposal would have to deal with the fact that treaty everyone by equal standards will lead to equal outcomes.